ToME WikiNeilStevens: Regardless of what the engine will support, regardless of what certain other games do, to me it's clear that ToME ought to keep the fairly simple resistance system it already had. Once you explain how temporary and permanent resistances of elemental damage work, you've basically explained the whole system*.
So anyway, what resistance levels should be granted to what damage types? I'm in favor of keeping the same values for the elementals, but beyond that I have no idea.
Element |
Single Resist |
Double Resist |
Cap |
Fire |
66% |
89% |
5000 |
Cold |
66% |
89% |
5000 |
Acid |
66% |
89% |
5000 |
Electricity |
66% |
89% |
5000 |
Pure |
-- |
-- |
-- |
Poison |
?? |
-- |
?? |
Valinorean Fire |
?? |
-- |
?? |
Darkfire |
?? |
-- |
?? |
Confusion |
?? |
-- |
?? |
Sound |
?? |
-- |
?? |
Light |
?? |
-- |
?? |
Dark |
?? |
-- |
?? |
Slash |
** |
-- |
-- |
Crush |
** |
-- |
-- |
Pierce |
** |
-- |
-- |
*Well, there is the matter of randomized resistance amounts, but I'm yet ambivalent on those, so arguments on that welcome.
KhymChanur: Hmmm, aren't Valinorean Fire and Darkfire replacements for T2 damage types which were supposed to be unresistable?
NeilStevens: If we replace some of those ??s with --s, though, I'm fine with that.
DarkGod: No Darkfire and valinorean fire are replacements respectively for hellfire/nether and for holy fire. In the code they are based on light and dark but light and dark still exist on their own.
And for 'cap', do you mean the maximum that a non-ordinary single resist can be? The max that a double resist can be, regardless of the values of the base resists? If the player can get immunity to that damage type?
Orvin: Should the resistance levels for different damage types actually be different, or should it just be that objects granting resistance to different damage types should have different rarity, spells different level/cost, etc.?
NerdanelVampire: I think the cap is supposed to be the maximum amount of damage the element can ever do. ToME 2 (and Vanilla, etc.) has such a thing: 1600 hp for the four basic elements, less for the rest. I would certainly like to be able to tweak this for Zothiqband, as characters there have fewer hitpoints than in the ToME module.
NeilStevens: 1600, that's what I thought it was, too, so I'm guessing it's likely right then. Caps should be easily implemenetable in the damage type code itself, which is of course module-specific, so you're set.
DarkGod: It was yes. But we did tripple player HP, so we need to tripple that too. But do we need a cap? It's up to the monster designers to make up the attack power. The system handling damage should not really care.
NeilStevens: Yes, we need a cap, if we're going to keep the same HP-based system of breath weapon damage, which I think is a nice game rule/effect that we should keep. Otherwise you end up with all damage types being equally dangerous, which I think then just gets boring when you dig up their resistances. I don't want light and dark being as lethal as fire and cold, personally.
NerdanelVampire: Except if you can have levelled monsters... And in any case, having an explicit safety (4800 for the ToME basic elements) protects from nasty instadeaths if monster design is less than perfect. By the way, is there an easy way to estimate how much damage a spell/breath can do based on its level?
DarkGod: Then it's up to the spell/breath to limit itself, again not something the damage system should do
NeilStevens: I think you're misunderstanding us, or at least me. Nobody's asking for new features to the damage SYSTEM. Just a feature in the ToME module. Anyway, it's very poor coding practice to have every spell in the game that uses damage type X, to independently have to refer to the same damage cap. Implementing it in the damage types is much more maintainable over the long run.
AerdanRunestar: The problem with that is that some modules might want to remove that cap later. Would this be possible, or...?
NeilStevens: As I alluded to above, damage types are module-specific.
NeilStevens: Depends entirely on the spell of course. There's no one damage formula for all.
RavenRed: Wasn't sure that stuff like Shards and Time were going to carry over. I assume the "double resist" is the system as it now stands (just seems slighyly high compared with immunity)? Anyway, I more or less think that the rarer damages should have comparable resists to the Base elements, although it might be an idea to lower the "double-resist" for these rarer types to ensure they're even deadlier (including rarity of resist).
NeilStevens: Shards and Time weren't going to carry over; I've now corrected the list back tow hat I had it at when I first created this page. As for double resist, I'm working based on my memories of rgra spoilers: with resistance you take 1/3 damage, with double resist you take 1/9.
FedericoOdorizzi: The single resist for the basic elements is 2/3 and the double resist is 8/9, right? (I'm asking for 2/3 is usually written as 67%, not 66%) Then, as fractions are more precise than percentages, wouldn't be better to use them instead?
NeilStevens: Sounds fine to me. I was working quickly to get the whole table put up, heh.
DarkGod: No we will use %, the engine understands % natively, while it would be possible to make a new resist system using fractions it is much effort for about 0 gain
FedericoOdorizzi: I proposed it for I thought it was made with fractions; it's just better if the engine understands %
NeilStevens: I meant the 67% sounds fine, heh.
NeilStevens: To whoever added all the extra damage types: You're misinformed, sorry. I pulled the final damage type list here from a prior discussion that set the damage type list. And that list came from DG via RavenRed, so I consider it authoritative until DG says he changed his mind.
NeilStevens: As for the combat damage types, I'm proposing they have no cap. I also think pure should be uncapped.