• GeneralDiscussion
• Abilities in 2.3 vs. 2.2

[If you arrived here from somewhere other than the GeneralDiscussion main page, be advised that the following is very very spoily. I didn't put it in the Spoilers section because it's incomplete and poorly organized, being little more than my notes and ruminations on the subject. I'm happy to be convinced otherwise, of course. -- ZizzoTheInfinite]

Abilities in 2.3.x vs. 2.2.x

Starting in v2.3.0, characters receive one extra skill point per level in exchange for a change in how abilities like Fighting and Saving Throw are computed that decouples them from race, subrace and class. An oft-asked question is whether this is an "equivalent exchange"—that is, whether the 49 extra skill points are enough to "buy back" by way of skill increases the ability levels one would have had in 2.2.x. What follows is some incomplete work toward answering that question; it also touches tangentially on the question of how starting and end-game characters compare ability-wise between 2.2.x and 2.3.x.

Note that throughout the following I've used the (S@N) notation from my skill spoilers, which denotes the skill level of the skill under discussion multiplied by N, divided by 50, and rounded down to the nearest integer. Thus, if your skill level is 22.7, (S@100) is 2270.0/50, which rounds down to 45.

Stealth

Stealth is the easiest case, since the corresponding class modifier is zero. Thus, in both cases, your Stealth ability level is X+1+(S@25), where S is your Stealth skill level and X is zero in 2.3.x and the sum of your race, subrace and class base values in 2.2.x. Those base values are:

There are a few things of note here. First, a 2.3.x character's Stealth ability level is always 1 at skill level 0 and 26 at skill level 50, and a 2.2.x character's starting Stealth is X+1 (X+2 for Rogues and Assassins, who start at skill level 2.000). This means DeathMolds are immediately out of luck—a 2.3.x DeathMold's highest possible Stealth is lower than a 2.2.x DeathMold's starting stealth. For other character combinations, a 2.3.x character will need a Stealth skill level of 2×X to reproduce the initial Stealth ability level of a corresponding 2.2.x character. For reference, here are the starting Stealth skill level modifiers in 2.3.x:

So for instance, a Wood-Elf Archer starts with a Stealth ability level of 9 in 2.2.x and a starting Stealth skill level of 5.000 in 2.3.x, corresponding to a Stealth ability level of 3. To achieve the 9 Stealth ability level she would have started with in 2.2.x, she must increase her Stealth skill level to 16.00, and with a Stealth skill multiplier of 0.400, this will cost 28 skill points.

At the other end of the scale, a character with Stealth skill level 50 will have a Stealth ability level of X+26 in 2.2.x and 26 in 2.3.x. Whether this is an improvement depends on X. Our Wood-Elf Archer, for instance, cannot hope in 2.3.x to reach her 2.2.x maximum Stealth ability level of 34 (capped at 30, but still), while a Thunderlord Barbarian Warrior in 2.3.x can exceed his 2.2.x maximum of 9 (though it will cost him 90 skill points at a minimum, up to 170 to get all the way to skill level 50 and ability level 26).

Searching and Perception

Again, the zero class modifier makes these abilities fairly easy to analyze. In 2.2.x, your Searching ability level is X_S+S and your Perception ability level is X_P+S, where S is your Sneakiness skill level and X_S and X_P are the sum of race, subrace and class base values for Searching and Perception, as listed below. In 2.3.x, your Searching ability level is (S@35) and your Perception ability level is (S@25).

In 2.2.x, all characters start with skill level 1.000 in Sneakiness (except for Demonologists, who inexplicable start with skill level 2.000); in 2.3.x, initial Sneakiness skill level is the combination of race, subrace and class adjustments, as detailed below.

These two abilities are an across-the-board loss in 2.3.x for all character combinations: both abilities start at lower levels, and both increase more slowly with the Sneakiness skill. Our Wood-Elf Archer from above, for instance, starts 2.2.x with Searching level 33 and Perception level 29. In 2.3.x, her starting levels are 1 and 0, respectively; to match her 2.2.x starting Searching level, she must raise her Sneakiness to skill level 47.7, at a cost of 51 skill points, and her 2.2.x starting Perception level is simply unattainable in 2.3.x.

Saving Throw

Saving Throw is trickier, since its class modifier is nonzero. In 2.2.x, your Saving Throw is X+W(S)+(S@(CM×5)), where S is your Spirituality skill level, X, as above, is the sum of race, subrace and class base values, as listed below, CM is the class modifier for your class, as listed below, and W(S) is a stepwise function of your Spirituality skill, as detailed below. In 2.3.x, your Saving Throw is 10+W(S)+(S@75), which works out to 10 at skill level 0 and 104 at skill level 50.

Now, since the Saving Throw class modifier for all 2.2.x classes is less than 15, Saving Throw increases more quickly with Spirituality in 2.3.x than in 2.2.x, and character combinations with a low total base value in 2.2.x will have a higher Saving Throw at Spirituality skill level 50 in 2.3.x than in 2.2.x.

At initial Spirituality levels, however, 2.3.x characters are severely penalized by the lack of the added base value. Our Wood-Elf Archer from above, for instance, starts with Spirituality level 0 and Saving Throw 34 in 2.2.x, compared to Spirituality level 4 and Saving Throw 16 in 2.3.x; to reach parity with her 34 starting Saving Throw from 2.2.x, she must increase her Spirituality skill level to 15.600, at a cost of 29 skill points. For reference, here are the starting Spirituality skill level modifiers for 2.3.x:

Disarming

Your Disarming ability level is X+(S@(CM×5)+A_I+A_D in 2.2.x and (S@75)+A_I+A_D in 2.3.x, where S is your Disarming skill level, X, as always, is the sum of race, subrace and class base values, as listed below, CM is your class modifier as listed below, and A_I and A_D are adjustements based on your INT resp. DEX which are identical for 2.2.x and 2.3.x, as listed below.

In 2.3.x, Disarming ability equals A_I+A_D at Disarming skill level zero and 75+A_I+A_D at skill level 50 for all characters. The class modifier in 2.2.x is less than 15 for all class groups except Rogue, which means that Disarming ability will increase more quickly with Disarming skill in 2.3.x. For Mages, Archers and Priests, this is roughly enough to compensate for the lost of the intial base value; for instance, our ubiquitous Wood-Elf Ranger would have Disarming ability 75+A_I+A_D at Disarming skill 50 in both 2.2.x and 2.3.x. Warriors, Loremasters, and especially Rogues don't fare so well; a Hobbit Rogue, for instance, would have Disarming ability 135+A_I+A_D at skill level 50 in 2.2.x.

At initial skill levels, on the other hand, everyone suffers. All characters start at Disarming skill level 1.000 in 2.2.x (except Demonologists, who inexplicably start at 2.000); in 2.3.x, the starting skill adjustments for race, subrace and class are noted below

A Wood-Elf Archer with INT 12 and DEX 18, for instance, would start 2.3.x with Disarming skill level 1.500 and Disarming ability level 7, compared with skill level 1.000 and ability level 40 in 2.2.x; to achieve this ability level in 2.3.x, she would need skill level 24.000, at a cost of 25 skill points. Similarly, a Hobbit Rogue with INT 12 and DEX 18 would start 2.3.x with Disarming skill level 2.500 and Disarming ability level 8, compared with skill level 1.000 and ability level 66 in 2.2.x; to achieve this ability level in 2.3.x, he would need skill level 42.5, at a cost of 20 skill points.

Magic Device

In 2.2.x, your Magic Device ability level is X+(S@20)+(S@(CM×10)), where X, as always, is the sum of race, subrace and class base values, as listed below, S is your Magic-Device skill, and CM is the class modifier for Magic Device, as listed below. In 2.3.x, your Magic Device ability level is (S@20)+(S@150), which works out to 0 at Magic-Device skill level 0 and 170 at skill level 50.

In 2.2.x, all characters start with a skill level of 1.000 in Magic-Device, except for Unbelievers, who start at 0.000. In 2.3.x, your starting skill level is the sum of the appropriate race, subrace and class base values, as listed below.

Since CM is less than 15 for all classes, Magic Device ability increases with Magic-Device skill more quickly in 2.3.x than in 2.2.x, and classes with a low CM will often have a higher ability level at skill level 50 in 2.3.x. Our ubiquitous Wood-Elf Archer, for instance, has a Magic Device ability level of 158 at Magic-Device skill level 50 in 2.2.x, compare to 170 in 2.3.x. A Troll Barbarian Warrior fares even better in this comparison, with a maximum ability level of 90 in 2.2.x. A High-Elf Hermit Mage, on the other hand, is worse off in 2.3.x, compared to her maximum ability level of 216 in 2.2.x.

The monkey wrench, as always, is at the other end of the scale; the loss of the initial base value is annoying for early characters, but not necessarily devastating. Our Wood-Elf Archer, for instance, starts 2.2.x with Magic-Device skill level 1.000 and Magic Device ability level 40, compared to 1.600 and 4 in 2.3.x; to regain an ability level of 40, she must raise her Magic-Device skill level to 12.600, at a cost of 10 skill points. Our Troll Barbarian Warrior is not so bad off, with starting levels 1.000 and 1 in 2.2.x versus -0.800 and -2 in 2.3.x, needing only 2 skill points to reach parity. Our High-Elf Hermit Mage suffers, though, with starting levels 1.000 and 68 in 2.2.x vs. 4.000 and 13 in 2.3.x, and needing 14 skill points to achieve parity.

Fighting and Bows/Throw

These two abilities are the trickiest of the bunch—not only do they have nonzero class modifiers, they each depend on two skills. We will use CM_F and CM_B to denote the 2.2.x class modifiers for Fighting resp. Bows/Throw, and S_C, S_A and S_M to denote integer skill levels in Combat, Archery, and whichever subskill of Combat corresponds to your melee style (Weaponmastery for Weapon combat, Barehand-combat for Barehanded combat, Bearform-combat for Bearform combat). We also use X_F and X_B to denote the sum of the 2.2.x race, subrace and class base values for Fighting resp. Bows/Throw.

With all this notation in place, we can give formulas for the ability levels: in 2.2.x, your Fighting ability level is X_F+(CM_F×(7×S_M+3×S_C)/10)/10 and your Bows/Throw ability level is X_B+(CM_B×(7×S_A+3×S_C)/10)/10, while in 2,3.x your Fighting ability level is (50×(7×S_M+3×S_C)/10)/10 and your Bows/Throw ability level is (50×(7×S_A+3×S_C)/10)/10. [Note that each division by 10 is rounded down to the nearest integer before proceeding.] For reference, we list the corresponding base values and class modifiers below:

There are several points of note. First CM_F and CM_B are all less than 50, so the abilities increase with skill faster in 2.3.x than in 2.2.x. The loss of the initial base value, however, is an enormous penalty. Our ubiquitous Wood-Elf Archer, for instance, starts in 2.2.x with Fighting level 34 and Archery level 126, compared to Fighting level 0 and Archery level 15 in 2.3.x; this is roughly equivalent to a -11 melee to-hit penalty and a -37 ranged to-hit penalty in 2.3.x compared to 2.2.x. To bring her Bows/Throw ability up to 2.2.x's starting 126, our 2.3.x Archer must spend 31 skill points in Archery, raising Archery to 31.350 and Combat to 13.400. As another example, a Human Warrior starts with 74 Fighting and 59 Bows/Throw in 2.2.x, compared to 5 Fighting and 5 Bows/Throw in 2.3.x, for roughly a -23 relative melee to-hit penalty and a -18 relative ranged to-hit penalty.

The other end of the scale is not much better; the characters who lose the most from the elimination of the initial base values in 2.3.x generally gain the least from the effective increase in skill multiplier from CM_F or CM_B to 50, since those values were already close to 50 with those characters. At skill level 50 in Combat, Weaponmastery and Archery, for instance, our Wood-Elf Archer's Bows/Throw ability will be 347 in 2.2.x and only 250 in 2.3.x, for a rough relative ranged to-hit penalty of -32 (though her Fighting ability will also be 250 in 2.3.x, compared to only 181 in 2.2.x, which is roughly a +23 bonus to melee to-hit; on the other hand, maxing the three skills will cost six more skill points in 2.3.x than in 2.2.x). Our Human Warrior is even worse off; his Fighting and Bows/Throw abilities max out at 295 resp. 280 in 2.2.x, compared to 250 for both in 2.3.x, for a rough effective relative penalty of -15 melee to-hit and -10 ranged to-hit.

Non-fighting classes like Mage and Priest, on the other hand, benefit handsomely from the 2.3.x changes. A Dark-Elf Mage with maxed Combat and Weaponmastery skills, for instance, will have 250 Fighting, compared to only 102 in 2.2.x, corresponding roughly to a +49 relative bonus to melee to-hit. She still starts off at a disadvantage, though, with 0 Fighting in 2.3.x compared to 29 in 2.2.x.

Chatter

ZizzoTheInfinite: This is all incomplete, of course; there are still more abilities to hash out.

ElIott: Mother of God! This is astounding, Zizzo! I was finally able to sit down and read all the way through it. Hugely, hugely informative.

NeilStevens: My reaction to this and beyond is at NeilStevens/Lessons From 2.3