ToME WikiRavenRed: Quick idea.
Currently, Praying is either permanently on or permanently off. Whilst my personal lack of religion prevents first-hand experience, I doubt that most adventurers would be muttering "Hail Eru, full of grace..." through the entire time that they're tramping through the dungeon.
My solution is to make the "Praying" state a timed effect. The player still presses the "p" key to start it and it still takes one turn, but this quick muttered prayer only lasts for a period of 10*[Prayer Skill] + 1d[Prayer Skill]. At Prayer skill 80, it becomes as per the 2.3 implementation (on or off).
"You enter a state of divine grace..."
"You feel the presence of the Vala leave you..."
Artifacts (holy relics in effect) could give you the Prayer@80 effect at lower levels, when being worn. This gives either the pious or the well-equipped the full benefits of worship, whereas those of lesser devotion have to keep re-asking for the favour of their god...
2c worth and counting.
ShadUs: My only concern would be that it would be tedious as heck... at least if it's similar to the way the current prayer system works. It also effectively makes many of the effects of prayer pretty useless, like chance to be saved from death, if it takes a turn to turn it on you're probably already dying or dead and losing a turn would heavily contribute to your chance of death.
RavenRed: Given that the chance only starts at 100,000 piety and that the "perma pray" effect starts at the equivalent of the old Level 40 in prayer, I don't see it as a huge drawback. I understand your tedium concerns, though.
BucketMan: Maintaining a constant 'prayerful attitude' is a fairly common idea to a variety of religions.
RavenRed: A prayerful attitude is generally attained by a whole lot of praying.
Think of your mental state when you're brushing your teeth. Are you thinking about brushing your teeth? No, you're on auto-pilot. Your habits, rather than your conscious mind, are guiding your actions. In a similar way, when you have prayer set to on, you are focusign on Eru, and He is the habit guiding your actions.
RavenRed: Ah, but IS Eru focussing on you? Regular devotions to the deity (whichever deity) is a fairly constant thing across most religions. Also, prayers before battle (be they a formal ecumenical blessing or for that matter the average soldier's "Oh God, please have my enemies die instead of me") are also equally common. I think you're attributing far too much to habit rather than intent. Is prayer merely a mechanical action conferring ritual favour? Or does sincerity and intent count as much as the form?
BucketMan: I suppose it depends on the God-concept we're working with.
RavenRed: Absolutely. Since (AFAIK) there's no real indications of religion (as opposed to mythology) in LoTR, we basically have to implement our own. We can draw from one or the other of the existing traditions (Abrahamic, Animistic, Greek, Hindu), but we shouldn't feel too straightjacketed in game design. (And I'm aware that Tolkien was a Catholic of fairly orthodox and conservative views)
If Eru is an omniscient diety, then Him focusing on you seems perfectly reasonable. He's always focusing on you because He's always focusing on everything.
RavenRed: "Watching" and "Intervening" are quite different concepts. Determinism is an interesting concept, but whether it's that much fun as a gameplay element is another issue.
It's just a question of how receptive you are to that focus. As to habit and intent, again, it depends on your God-concept. If you conceive of 'God' as an "other" that is exterior from yourself, then yes, this wouldn't make much sense. But the expression is "as above, so below." Not "As below, so above." I would suggest that the art of prayer is not an attempt to confer favour at all. When you pray, you're not trying to make requests, or manipulate Eru, but rather, you're simply entering into a state of increased awareness of the relationship you have with Him. Your prayer skill is not a measure of your ability to get Him to do what you want, but rather a measure of your ability to properly channel the actions that He intends for you. Prayer is a loosening of the ego to allow Eru to work his will on the world through you. The sword does not make demands of the swordsman.
RavenRed: I disagree, but as I mentioned initially, my grasp of theology is entirely theoretical and external. We could certainly work out Prayer-skill rules on that basis, assuming that Arda is essentially a deterministic environment, but I prefer to think that players have pretty much all the agency in the game.
Or, if that's too much, how about think of it as simply a toggle. And, characters aren't actually praying that entire time, they're just set to 'pray when relevant.' Like when smiting monsters, for instance.
RavenRed: Very convenient, non-demanding idea of worship there. As a game mechanic, it's a way of making sure the worshipful are more worthy of divine favour than the notional.
BucketMan: Convenient, yes. But there's certainly a precedent for it: Think of all the religious types who spend four hours at church every Sunday, but then go drinking at strip clubs the following night. When they're at church they may not be actively "praying" in the sense of "hands together, eyes closed, mumbling." But, they do have "prayer mode on." Then, when they go home and change to go out drinking and carousing, they turn prayer mode off.
RavenRed: And the question would be whether they actually gain any piety. :-P Though there's certainly the argument that people put on their pious hat when doing good works and remove the halo when they go out sinning.
KhymChanur: The roguelike game "Crawl" has a similar system, but with prayer duration increasing with piety rather than prayer skill.
RavenRed: Piety is gainable without any actual investment by the player, though.