PhineasButterfat: Why are weapons the only objects that are sentient? How about sentient headgear that gains detection, perception, identification skill with levels? In this case, xp could be gained for each new dungeon level visited, increasing with the depth and difficulty. Or, how about a shield that gains resistances and, ultimately, immunities, with levels, with the xp coming from being on the receiving end of such attacks, and more xp being gained from higher level or more damaging attacks of a given type (in other words, you have to be damaged by high-level fire for the shield to gain fire resistance, etc.)? What about a sentient spellbook that gains experience when its attack spells are cast against high-level opponents, with an increase in the spellbook's level translating into an increase in the effective level of its attack spells? Does anyone like this idea or care to suggest additional sentient non-weapons?

SimonSorc:

-A sentient speed ring that gains +1 speed with probability 1% when you kill a monster that has more than triple the speed factor of the ring. It drains experience. It can re-curse itself and won't improve when cursed.

-A ring of slaying that rerolls itself when you gain a level, keeping either its old or new value depending on what is highest.

-A dragon horn of cold that needs 50000 XP to recharge its activation, and if charged enough can activate many times in a row. It's more deadly when it has more charges left.

-A harp that allows you to double/triple the effects of songs. Each song must be played a lot for the harp to learn that trick.

-A spellbook that gains spells when you use them 100 times in a row without casting anything else. It has a tendency to cast its only spell on its own, at randomly selected targets, at any time. Watch out and don't wake the baddies you want to avoid! This spellbook raises spell power as it gains XP

-A mage staff that reduces spell failure rates - and improves with XP

-A sentient symbiote that gains ALL our XP when worn. Self-heavy cursing. Experience and life draining. Black breath causing. Str/dex/cha/searching/infravision/luck lowering. But it raises your maxmana and slowly keeps getting better at it...

-A randart that activates for XP loss. But if you activate it a few more times it lets you choose an activation from a menu of all activations... and then goes back to activating for XP loss, but each time the XP loss gets higher and other losses become possible. In time, players who badly abuse it will activate it for gain corruption, curse armor, and eventually death!!!

-A rod that gains capacity with XP. It however may explodes if drained or zapped when there is not enough mana left.

-A wand that drains mana and XP to recharge itself.

-A rod tip of trap detection AND trap destruction that learns to auto-activate near hidden traps - becoming smarter at it and more likely to do it when needed as it gains XP.

-A talking mule for extra carrying capacity. It can be killed if you're not careful with it, and gains some of your XP instead of you. Talking animals are very Tolkien. (-;

-A pair of portable void gates which must be found separately. They can be set to work farther apart as you let them gain some of your XP. If you drag them from level 40 to 50 they might have enough XP to go from a town to another, or even from a dungeon to another. They don't do certain really endgame dungeons; but they can allow you to return to the halls of mandos - without lost soul powers - if you installed one there. (-;

-A very powerful talking armor that lose powers when you gain XP wearing it - it wants you to continue on your own as it doesn't like senseless violence! You gain some XP for putting it in the mathom house - more XP if you mathom it early. It's a whole help start newbie concept. (-;

-A ring that make you lose melee attacks per round, more lost the more XP it has, and when you eventually are down to one attack and only then - that attack is multiplied by the number of attacks you'd otherwise have. It gets rid of "attack spam" whem you have 15 attacks or so, and you get that all-or-noting effect you need to potentially kill hard-to-hit monsters in one round.

-A cloak of protection that looks at your resists, and then has one resist you're missing and nothing more. As it gains XP, it can resist-shift quicker (with no XP it takes days). At higher XP it can do immunities and gains resist chaos.

-A glove that activates for balls of water, just like the water hound breath. As it gains XP it can activate more often.

-An amulet that finishes off monsters you just attacked when they are down to 3 percent of HP or less - but only if that would gain you piety. The XP you normally would gain is converted to a small piety bonus that increases somewhat when more XP is gained at once. Corpses are never dropped with that kill method.

-Boots that gain searching and stealth with XP. They activate for destroying traps if they gain level 35.

MayLith: Some comments:

PhineasButterfat: Thanks for the comments. I agree they should be rare. I would envision only a few of these items. I believe some of your specific concerns could be worked around, though. Note that I wrote "new dungeon levels," so stairscumming wouldn't work. As far as farming, can't that be solved by only counting experience from never-before-encountered monsters? I might try it in a module, I'll keep you posted :)

Solorin: One way to implement it would be to have sentient non-weapons linked as a set to a sentient weapon, where the whole set gains xp as the weapon does. This would somewhat address the rarity issue, as a set of items is harder to put together. If this isn't difficult enough, then have the sentient non-weapon gain only the xp that is earned after the set is complete.

An easier (for the player) way to do it would be for the item to gain a fraction of the character's drained experience. Some of the items in the list already mention this.

In general, I agree with Maylith: Abundant sentience cheapens the value of finding such an object, and lessens the challenge and excitement of ToME altogether. But hey, it's just a game.

P.S. How are talking animals Tolkien? I'll admit it's been a while since I read LoTR but I don't recall any talking animals. Sam's pack animal certainly didn't. Are you being sarcastic? Please provide examples if you aren't. *puzzled* Oh, wait. Talking armor. You must be kidding . . .

MassimilianoMarangio: The Great Eagles and some ravens could speak.

MassimilianoMarangio: This reminds me of a talking pacifist sword, Cuthbert, in a fantasy novel by Craig Shaw Gardner.

Solorin: I stand corrected, Mr. Marangio.

Not a exactly a talking pacifist sword, but here is an idea for a sentient set inspired by what I feel is the one of the more moving scenes and memorable characters from the Silmarillion.

Fingolfin's Last Stand

It is one of three items that once belonged to Fingolfin, the Elven King who rent Morgoth seven wounds in single combat.

Ringil

Set of Cesti of Fingolfin

Silver Mail of Fingolfin

In the book, Fingolfin also has a horn and a blue shield, but it seems the precedent for sets is two or three artifacts. The set of five would also limit the player's equipment choices and make it next to impossible to complete it. Perhaps this would be desirable, as The Silver Mail of Fingolfin (the sentient piece of the set) would probably be insanely powerful after levelling.

The Set of Cesti and Ringil would have the characteristics they do now (see Artifact spoiler), only Ringil would gain an internal level counter for sentience when the set was complete i.e. I'm not proposing that Ringil be made sentient for this set. The level counter should be displayed by the mail and not the sword. The flags gained by levelling would then manifest themselves on The Silver Mail and remain even if another weapon is wielded. However, levels can only be gained when wielding the entire set. The realms and powers would be the same as they are for sentient weapons, but brandings and slays would obviously be inapplicable (or at least impractical), and needn't show up in the *id* description.

The Silver Mail of Fingolfin (-3 to accuracy)(E:10, L:1)[30,+0](cursed)

Glimmering with silver inlay, this bright coat of rings lends insight, bravery and legerdemain to the wearer.

It is sentient. It can be activated for heroism every 300 turns if it is being worn. It grants you the power of blink. It provides light (radius 3) forever. It increases your wisdom and constitution by 5. It sustains your dexterity. It makes you completely fearless. It provides resistance to dark, nether and disenchantment. It aggravates nearby creatures. It is heavily cursed. It can re-curse itself.

As for other set completion flags, I haven't really given thought to that yet (ideas are welcome). Due to the fact that sentience encompasses many (if not all flags), and the rest of the artifacts that make up this set are some of the finest artifacts in the game, perhaps sentience should be the only thing gained after set completion.

It is also debatable as to whether or not the armor should have to-hit and to-dam bonuses, and whether or not those bonuses should increase with levelling. Ringil already hits pretty hard as it is. But, then again, you'd have to hit pretty hard to hew Morgoth's foot. Also, the enchanted part of the AC should increase with levelling, and perhaps the code for adding to-hit bonuses to sentient weapons could be adapted for the AC increase.

What do people think? The aggravate flag is, well, aggravating? Giving swordmasters the edge yet again? Too powerful? Too weak? Unimplementable? Not much different than just giving Ringil sentience? Should be just a regular set? Should be implemented with a commoner, weaker weapon? Perhaps a sentient horn may be more interesting. Feel free to riff, and definitely feel free to implement. ;)

PhineasButterfat: To the list of talking Tolkien animals, add Huan (who spoke only three times). As for Solorin's Fingolfin set, I like the concept, but it sounds like it could be too powerful if not careful controlled. I would at least restrict its use to non-undead and non-Melkor worshippers. I would not grant +dam with levels. It's hard to imagine armor helping with +dam, but +hit might be justified by the maneuverability of the armor (e.g., the sentience of the armor causes it to better mold to your body). Perhaps a critical hits bonus for completing the set would be thematic (is cutting off a foot a dam or crit hits issue)?

Solorin: With regards to Huan, I concede - again. When reading over the Silmarillion, for info on Fingolfin, I also remembered that Huan spoke, and was going to post it, but it looks like you beat me to it. It interesting to me that of the three animals listed two are of at least semi-divine origin, while ravens seem to have no connection with the Valar. Do ravens speak in the "trilogy" or just the Hobbit? Might it be explained in terms of some stylistic disconnection between the books i.e. The Hobbit is more of a fairy tale, while The Silmarillion is more mythological in scope? I have a sense that, traditionally in England, ravens are accorded certain magical aspects. Also, does anyone know if there are indigenous populations of Eagles in Britain? Oops, I meant eagles.

About to-hit and to-dam bonuses in armor, I agree. I thought that some armors had these, but going over the artifact list for body armors, there seems to be no precedent. Although, the rationale for such a bonus would be just like the rationale for most things in ToME: enchantments or divine power. How does a sword grant immunity to fire? A ring make you levitate? etc.

Mr. Butterfat is right, the foot thing is probrably more of a critical hits issue. The bonus could probrably go on Ringil after the set is complete, but I have no idea how much. I was also considering +5 to speed on the armor. Ringil already nets you +10 to speed. Is +15 overkill? The book does say that Fingolfin darted like lightning from under a dark cloud (Morgoth) - which may also be faint justification (very faint) for an electric sheath. Then again, the set may be powerful enough as it is.

Would capping the number of levels at say 20 be sufficient to control the armor's power? How about adjusting the armor's rarity? Is it possible to restrict characters from wielding equipment based on race modifiers and diety choice? If it is, I agree limiting the armor to "good" characters is appropriate.

I think a thematic level of power would be: if a high level character (with the skill points in the appropriate places) wielding such a set facing Morgoth in single melee combat could damage him a few times before having a pretty good chance of being mortally wounded. But I guess that also depends on a number of other factors.

IdeaArchive/Sentient non-weapons (last edited 2004-11-24 07:27:48 by MayLith)