ToME WikiRavenRed: Just a couple of minor ideas/changes.
- Changing either your Tactics or Explore Options should take one turn of game time.
Explore should affect move speed only. Tactics should affect Weapon and Spell-Casting speed. Both positive and negative speed changes should be enforced. The split-speed system is there for a reason.
- Changing either should be a main-screen option, rather than having to go to the Character Screen.
2cworth and counting.
BsVeteran: I dislike changing Tactics and Explore, because an L1 character taking on an L16 monster at Berserker/Running (melee) or Coward/Running (spells) feels unrealistic (it's like cheating).
Here's another proposal:
- It is not possible to change the Explore option. Instead, the Searching mode is modified with a - to speed dependent on race and class (gnome mage: 0, troll barbarian: -20). Both Searching and Perception are quite reliable in this mode.
- Tactics is either a) dropped altogether or b) modified so that it increases to-hit dice, rather than giving a certain bonus. When used conservatively, it increases AC but again by a 1dn amount (not a definite amount).
NeilStevens: It's not cheating. If you wish to handicap yourself, that's your choice, but if it were so easy to win with that setting, we'd see fewer people who never win.
BsVeteran: I know it's not cheating, but it unbalances the early game. It doesn't make so much of a difference in the mid to late game, or to winning. (It would if the change to speed or to-hit or AC were dependent on character level.)
NeilStevens: I was just making it explicit that it's not cheating for the benefit of readers, who might avoid the feature after seeing it called cheating. I still disagree with your assessment, though. I don't think it has as much impact as you think.
Anyway, as for the main topic, my idea has been to leave the two alone, except for one change: make it possible to modify them only after spending some skill points to buy the ability. If we make that change in a ToME version where skill points are front-loaded, the tactics and explore will still be available at level 1, but it'll just cost you something.
TheFalcon: Please could you explain what you mean by "front-loaded"??
RavenRed: BsVeteran. I understand what you mean with "feels like" cheating. For example, a non-melee spellcaster has no real penalty for coward mode throughout the game, which is why I suggested that the mode affect spellcasting. Neil, if I'm understanding with front-loading, you mean that there will be skillpoints available at character start for the character to use as they feel necessary?? Would you envisage it as one abiltiy for both speed and combat-related settings, or two? Are spellcasters still significantly advantaged by this?
NeilStevens: Yes, that's what I mean by front-loading: Instead of only getting points at levels 2-50, we'd get some at level 1, too.
I'd have separate abilities for Explore and Tactics.
I think the costs of this change are equal for all characters. Typically one will either use Combat skills or not. Those who do will want access to Berserker at some point. Those who do not will want access to Coward. As far as I can tell, the benefits of Running vs Slug-like don't treat Combat users and Magic users differently.
GreyCat: For the record, using Berserk+Running has a huge impact on the early game, particularly when you're taking on an opponent you'd normally never be able to defeat. A level 1 fighter-type character with Berserk+Running can take down a red naga in the shallow water square using hit and run, and get to experience level 6 or so. Then after pumping up the fighting skills, he can take down a 2-headed hydra using the same trick. The other place it has a huge effect is when doing early game random quests. A skeleton orc, or Orfax the yeek, would normally wipe the floor with a low-level fighter, but on Berserk+Running, you actually have a chance of winning in a toe-to-toe fight. (Don't try hit and run with Orfax....)
BileGate: But also for the record, a lot of things have a huge impact on the early game in the sense that you mention above. Toss a potion of detonations, scum-summon mice, shoot arrows or magic at distant hydrae: all work consistently to kill swamp critters near level one. In general, the overhead map is almost perfectly safe for leveling since one can just jump to the next screen: if it can't kill you in a turn, you are safe. Speed from running + slashing is just one of many ways to take down such opponents. The effect of tactics/explore is significant, but would you really want to be adding options into the game that don't impact the gameplay strongly? Personally, what I don't like about the manipulation of tactics/explore is that it almost always proves boring and monochrome: we set to some extreme setting, ocassionally use the opposite extreme, and interacting with the aspect of the game is often not even a course placement on a continuum, but rather the flipping of bits. In short, I think that there is a case for saying that the tactical options are sort of uninteresting. Don't remove it, but don't make me interact with it more often unless it becomes correspondingly more interesting: boring things are better done once in a while. I'm more interested in the aspects of the game which give unique, semicomplex, partly qualitatitive choices (how do a build a skillset for my character which is both successful for him and interesting for me to play) than in the parts of the game which amount to the linear variation of a paramater over a short domain. I really like seeing the skill system continue to become more robust. A swordmage is maybe not so easy to do (seems better to specialize and use one or the other overwhelmingly), but the mixture of odd and complimentary abilities makes the creation of a character more varied and more interesting.
Kn: The tactics/explore system is totally broken. The tactics damage bonus should be proportional to total damage. Right now it's insane since a level 1 sorcerer with no fighting skill can pulverize a thief with his bare hands. It really doesn't add any strategy since it's a given that you want to increase your aggression when attacking and reduce it when retreating. The game could automate this effect by silently giving an AC bonus when moving and losing it when attacking. Also, there's no reason why a mage would use anything other than coward except early on to pulverize said thief, so it's just a no-brainer bonus. The explore system is broken because the speed bonus from running affects all actions. It should only affect the energy to move and not the energy to perform actions. Right now it's a no-brainer to run when fighting monsters, unless they can cast spells that require saving throws. Really, it should be removed because a proper run system requires tracking the player's energy reserves. Really, what keeps people from running around everywhere is running out of breath, not losing their saving throws. I suggest removing the tactics/explore completely.